Lovato to Appear on Bill Moyers Journal

October 16, 2008

We just got confirmation that I will be appearing on the Bill Moyers Journal Show this coming Friday at 9pm (check your local listings). I’ll be looking at a number of issues including the Latino vote, recent debates and other issues that will also be addressed by Fox Political commentator and former Reagan staffer, Linda Chavez.

Tune in and let us know what you think!

This week on BILL MOYERS JOURNAL (check local listings)

  • As the election nears and accusations of voter fraud run rampant from party to party, BILL MOYERS JOURNAL takes a close look at the charges and what you can do to protect your vote. Bill Moyers sits down with Mark Crispin Miller, professor of Media Ecology in the Department of Culture and Communication at NYU, who has been following voter fraud allegations in his blog News from the Underground.
  • It’s been a busy week for US politics. Bill Moyers sits down with chairman of the Center for Equal Opportunity and FOX NEWS political analyst Linda Chavez and NATION contributor and writer with New American Media Roberto Lovato to review the news of the week and talk about what’s missing from political conversation.
  • How will the middle class fare in this economic turmoil? Bill Moyers speaks with Michael Zweig, director of the Center for Working Class Life at SUNY Stony Brook.


9 Responses to “Lovato to Appear on Bill Moyers Journal”

  1. Dave Bennion Says:

    Nice! Bill Moyers is great. I’ll watch for it.

  2. robvato Says:

    Thanks, Dave. Hope all is well with you, yours and your work. Best, R

  3. John Lipsius Says:


    I am a political independent, more prone to Nader on a lot of things, a 52 yr old engineer, 24 yrs in Silicon Vly. I grew up w/ the Vietnam War heights, riots and aftermath, in NYC. I was always a ‘progressive’ more or less. I worked hard at degrees in Physics and Electrical Engineering. I believe I’d like to teach in a poor area in NYC someday. I’ve seen violent protests firsthand (Wash DC and NYC) & been arrested fraudulently in a political protest.

    I’ve had mostly hard jobs up through college: digging ditches, hauling drywall, ripping up concrete. For about 30 yrs our Congress & WhiteHouse have defrauded us because we cannot keep our Democracy, as Adams warned. This is economic & political fraud, for the sake of power of both kinds. The bubble-destined shadow financial system was created over the last decade or so by Paulson (2000: lobbied SEC as head of Goldman Sachs) and enabled by Greenspan and the SEC from 2004 on. It’s all the same thread. rgemonitor.com. Same as it ever was. In the background, Moyers’ guests are involved effectively on the same side that has outsourced labor _within our own country_ for corporate profit. Interesting.

    Be advised, my arguments have nothing to do with xenophobia, though I’m sure I’ll push enough of your buttons to convince you otherwise. That’s to be expected.

    I’ll abbreviate ‘illegal immigration’ as “II” hereafter.

    Now we have activists, such as Moyers’ guests, with a racially biased agenda insofar as it relates to illegal immigrants or Latinos on one side vs. ‘the other side’. Their very words defining a division give the lie to their denial of same. How could they be anything but racially biased when exercise of sovereignty and rule of law becomes something discriminatory against Latinos? Grow up; if it were purple striped Caucasians from here or another planet my position would be the same.

    The following will be quotes from the Moyers show followed by the obvious, easy rebuttal.

    —— 1 ——

    “…illegal aliens, they’re like the canaries in the mine shaft. …they give us early warning signals that there are problems. … most people in this country, I think, would believe that illegal immigration right now is at an all time high.

    In fact, it’s not. It’s about half what it was at the peak period, which was in 1995 to 2000. So, you know, I actually believe that what you’re seeing in terms of the II issue, a lot of the people who were here, working hard, very productive folks, were trying to get a foothold, trying to get a slice of the American dream. And many of them actually did try to buy houses, and some of them did succeed … they were many of the people in these sub-prime loans. That was the beginning. ”

    OK, so Linda has authoritative info on the II rates. We’d all like to know from where. And during the ’95-’00 peak where was Lovato & Chavez while the illegals, their traitor employers / lobbyists & their govt enablers were depressing wages and, according to Chavez, contributing to our financial calamity? Do tell. Don’t deny. Instead, tell. What I state is _fact_. US wages have been falling (esp in construction trades) for 30 yrs., after inflation. So, she therefore knows how many are here illegally, otherwise only estimated as 12 to 20M. Impressive. Tell us these sources, Linda.

    The “slice of the American Dream” turned out to be part of the straw (only a part) that broke the camel’s back. Doesn’t sound like a ringing endorsement of anything but felony charges for hiring an illegal, to enable their self-deportation en mass (at little cost to us; yes, that’s right _us_ — the ‘us’ behind sovereignty). It’s called “enforcement through attrition”.

    Now the “working hard, very productive” bit. Uh, what? Working hard and productively disenfranchising American workers and their tax base. Congressional testimony last year established in a non-partisan fact-based way (I know it’s inconvenient) that ANY low income household is a net drain on the municipal budget. Please, please, please … stop offering no-think to us. It’s nauseating.

    —— 2 ——

    “I wouldn’t call people illegal aliens, because I think that term’s loaded and very ideological. And problematic and dehumanizing to boot.”

    Uh… you’re weird. I should sue when I’m called ‘white’, now that I’m a minority in CA and offended somehow? You have the PC disease. It inhabits most who are no-think. What about the problematic and dehumanizing effects of II on citizens over the last 13 yrs? What? Cat got your tongue? One can only take this position if one has internalized a profound repudiation of the concept of sovereignty. Dude, they ARE illegal aliens; get over it. Nothing personal. This PC disease just appears to be more expert flinging of FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) as opposed to dealing with reality. But, reality is inconvenient. I understand.

    —— 3 ——

    “…there’s an unstated consensus between the two candidates not to talk about an issue that they don’t see any political benefit in.”

    Exactly. Now, if you stretch those brain cells the last bit you’ll see that it’s a great litmus test. These two are not leaders and they only pretend to be. And since most of us are no-think we swallow another theatre act in our play about democracy. These are more of the images you’ll see as you race down the rabbit hole, to meet Alice.

    —— 4 ——

    “McCain-Kennedy bill …700 pages of which were primarily about putting more children in jail, more families in jail, more stuff that’s going to facilitate more raids, stuff that’s going to kill more people in the desert.”

    Again, though important after-effects of II, these are your focus because you must first deny American sovereignty. If you didn’t deny it your first concern would be to establish protection of the citizen with ‘enforcement through attrition’; ie: self-deportation mentioned above. The latter is called the rule of law, accompanying a nation’s sovereignty. Without your denial of our sovereignty, your agenda wouldn’t be tenable. Again, no mention of the ill-effects of II on the citizens of this country. Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt. The ill effects on illegals is a result of their actions. Get it? Just checking. Yes, they should be rescued. Enforcement would obviate most raids. But, I guess that’s too logical. Again, accepting that blatherous quote above first requires one to repudiate American sovereignty.

    —— 5 ——

    “We could end illegal immigration, basically, tomorrow, if we enacted policies, immigration policies that were market-based … that did take a look at our need for labor in this country, that allowed enough people to come in to fill jobs that Americans will not take, or even if they take them, will not stay in.

    I mean, we’ve seen all these raids in some of the meat processing plants. When those companies have gone out and actually hired the American-born, what they find is, yes, they show up for work the first day. Many don’t the second day, and by the end of the week, they’re gone.”

    Ms. Chavez shows her colors. Market-based immigration policies. A true Reaganite. Good ol’ labor arbitrage. She actually believes this stuff. To justify it, you must first deny our sovereignty (and the common sense of most of us). Newflash, since she didn’t get the memo: Americans won’t take certain jobs because they’re designed to unecessarily poor conditions by those not interested in conditions, but which the poor II will tolerate since they earn more than they ever have.

    It’s called arbitrage, Linda, or leverage. Our sovereignty (self rule) would demand a native right to work for the citizen, not to be taken over as the ‘property’ of the govt policy or corporation to redistribute to a lower wage in order to satisfy a ‘market’ that is defined by a corporate controlled Congress. More socialism for the wealthy & redistribution to those controlling capital. It’s called institutionalizing “privatized profits, socialized costs”, and got us into our latest meltdown.

    Now, Linda, you apparently imagine that we Americans are no-think enough & really willing to be robbed of even the possibility of a job by this theatre? “See, these jobs suck [ha ha] so we have to bring in the II, Mr. Congressman.” You were sleeping when your arguments were debunked over a year ago: most American knows how to do hard jobs and will work for a _living wage_. You’re getting rusty, Linda. Notice how the decrease in unions matches the increase in poor conditions and labor arbitrage. You call this ‘market based’. You think we’re stupid.

    —— 6 ——

    “I think the whole debate on illegal immigration was largely manufactured. I mean, I wrote columns about this. I think talk radio had a lot to do with it, cable news had a lot to do with it. Lou Dobbs inveighing every night against illegal aliens had a lot to do with it. … Illegal immigration is down. I think it will largely disappear.”

    Ah, yes. I’m sure you wish it was. Would be nice. This is a transparent attempt to make the stupid believe ‘ok, we can forget about that stuff now; it’s gone’. No. This is the time to drive a stake through it. Enforcement through attrition, with felony penalties against employers. Again, if Linda believes what she says, then it proves the repudiation of sovereignty at the very core, and her ignorance of real America and what’s really taken place, from her comfy perch inside the Wash. DC bubble. Linda, yer batting zero.

    —— 7 ——

    “Who is the real sovereign? It used to be the king. Then it was the citizen. Now it’s the corporate citizen. And so, who better to blame for the end of our sovereignty than a border crossing, illegal alien?”

    Wow. Robert knows a thing or two. Well, Robert, your last sentence made my heart sink. I just saw that thought process take a dive down the usual dead end. Nobody’s blaming the illegals, get it? Not yet? Someday?

    —— 8 ——

    “But the whole population control movement is at the heart of the immigration control movement in this country. Groups like the Federation for American Immigration Reform, The Center for Immigration Studies, all of these groups grew out of anti-population groups, zero population groups, negative population growth … So there is a segment on the left that is also deeply anti-immigrant.”

    Uh, there you go again (a la Reagan; couldn’t resist). Yes, I’m very familiar with those groups. You forgot numbersusa.com, which is apparently most influential on Congressional votes. The evidence they present is fact based and convincing. That’s inconvenient. I understand. Deeply anti-immigrant, no. You, in a racist way, imply xenophobia. No, they are anti-out of control population growth. Simple arithmetic is involved. And reality. Not racial agendas. Your fallback is the ol’ accusation of a political or racial agenda on others. That is racist. You don’t fool those who can think. You will fool the no-think, and those are the only ones you’ll end up with. Birds of a feather. If I’m in favor of those groups for simple conservative (classically meant) and fact-based reasons supporting by citizen sovereignty (and ecological evidence), then again you silently deny that sovereignty as a necessary precondition for claiming simply “anti immigrant”. So, there’s not even any depth to your argument. That’s another telltale. All spin, no cattle.

    —— 9 ——

    “Irrationality has taken hold of our lives. … If you look at the market, the people that are running our economy don’t know what they’re doing. It’s obvious. They let one company die, like Lehman Brothers. And they let another survive, like AIG. What is the logic behind it? There is none. There’s no logic. And it’s naked to all of us. And so, why not embrace the fact that this stuff that’s failed. And let’s start with a new rationale, a new kind of citizenship that’s more global.”

    It has taken hold; look in the mirror. Yes, they don’t know what they’re doing in the societal sense. They know very well what they’re doing in the short-term sense. You appear to share that short-term thinking in common. Lehman was repudiated by suitors who looked at they’re internal assumptions, and the Feds agreed it was bull. And it was too much (the moral hazard). The stock selloffs have everything to do with that unwinding. But AIG had offsetting assets and a business future. Do some research.

    How do the failures mean we must “start with a new rationale, a new kind of citizenship that’s more global”? You made a leap that is pure sophistry, with no flair. I can hear the crowd now… “no-thinkers! unite!”. I think Paulson & Co. has a job for you in the new, new, much better than new, new world order. But, seriously, we see your admission that repudiation of U.S. sovereignty is the goal. Global citizenship. Memo to Robert: your illegal immigration agenda doesn’t trump what citizens demand.

    —— 10 ——

    “One of the things I worry about when I look at the financial sector now is that we’re having more and more concentration.”

    Wow. One sane sentence. Jeez, I guess it’s too much of a stretch to ponder that, just maybe, that’s the secret goal? Doh! Not convinced, myself, but it’s creepy.

    —— 11 ——

    “I think we’re in flux, like a chrysalis, in the sense that the … black-white dichotomy that defined freedom, that defined democracy in the United States, is over. Clearly, I think Latinos, 45 million of us, are the embodiment of that, if you will. And I think whites in some parts of the United States, especially in the southwest, are having to adjust to the fact that they’re minorities.”

    OK. What’s the point? Oh, I forgot. Nevermind.

    —— 12 ——

    “I think that the Republicans have really done themselves great damage by alienating the Hispanic vote.”

    How did they alienate the Hispanic vote? You assume that vote is of people who want all the II legalized? Really? Now I KNOW I want to know what you’ve been smoking.

    —— 13 ——

    “I think you’re going to see Latinos increasingly rise up to the call of history in the United States. Latinos will have a fundamental and definitive role in shaping what becomes the United States. And I think we’re going to give birth to a more global citizenship.”

    Like I said. The real agenda. Some change is natural. But Mr. Lovato has made clear he wants an engraved invitation to all illegals and their families.

    I wrote this entire comment starting at the top of the transcript, without reading the whole thing. Now, note my comment at the top: “[Lavato & Chavez] with a racially biased agenda insofar as it relates to illegal immigrants or Latinos on one side vs. ‘the other side’. Their very words defining a division give the lie to their denial of same.” Amazing.

    Well, the typical no-think American better wake up and get some awareness about this racial agenda. No, it’s not an obvious “let’s take back America from the gringo, man!”, but just a weird psychology that operates where up is down and in is out. You know, Alice-land.

    ———– epilogue ————-

    Lastly, to Mr. Moyers for having zero balance to this fraudulent blather: you’ve lost your way; all your other positions, most of which I fully support, matter not a wit in the face of your no-think support of destroying a sustainable society (because of age, incompetence or whatever else, it matters not). The funny thing is that it’s all just a play by the no-thinkers, engaging in their no-think, effectively distracting the no-think public with endless blather that echoes those who disinherit the citizen, while the capital “play” proceeds apace. You know, the real play. It would be tragic if it wasn’t so funny.

  4. Curt St John Says:

    On the Moyers PBS broadcast from 10/17, Lovato appeals to us to not use the phrase, “illegal immigrant” because it, among other heinous things, devalues human life. However, seeing as Websters defines “illegal” as “…not according to or authorized by law.” and immigrant as “…a person who comes to a country to take up permanent residence,” one would be led to believe the term is, in fact, wholly applicable to those who would choose to come to the US and not follow the current immigration laws.

  5. robvato Says:

    Wow! Thanks for taking the time to write this Epic post, John. Sounds, in all honesty, like something, much of what we said scared you to the point where you felt the need to “rebut” most of what was said. I’m only sorry that there’s not more where we agree, especially when it comes to the racism hiding behind the “I’m against ILLEGAL immigration” statements. All I can say is that you have nothing to fear from Latino power but fear itself. Best, R

  6. robvato Says:

    Thanks, Curt. In case you’re like too many anti-immigrant people who’ve never traveled outside the country, I strongly recommend you travel and find out how more civilized people talk about some form of the “undocumented”, people without papers, rather than this whole racialized, dehumanizing “illegal alien” phrase and its noxious derivatives. Sorry you’re feeling the need to explain the decline of your country, your livelihood by using the McDonalds of methods: attacking and dehumanizing immigrants. Thanks for visiting. R

  7. Curt St John Says:

    Thanks for the response. However, I HAVE spent a good deal of time outside the country, most recently working in Mexico. Perhaps the more “civilized” among us (a group to which I apparently don’t belong) would be better served to address the abject poverty that exists in those more “civilized” countries which forces the “undocumented” to seek a life here– albeit an illegal one. Or pehaps we ought to seek to completely obliterate all “noxious derivatives” in the English language and, for example, start referring to those convicted of the crime of homicide as “unathorized takers of life” instead of “murderers.”

  8. robvato Says:

    Don’t worry: there are enough of us now who, in our lifetimes, will guarantee that the word “illegal aliens” and its derivatives are recognized for how they code and disguise racist beliefs and sentiments. The “I” word will joining the “N” word in the annals of U.S. inhumanity.

  9. John Lipsius Says:

    Mr. Lavato is a no-thinker apparently. He didn’t glean the important points from my rant. His response, essentially, is that I’m afraid of “Latino power”. I don’t give a rat’s pattutie about any “racial power”; that’s an important point I made. Again, the robot falls back on the racism charge because it’s all he understands. In fact, it makes him the racist. Justice won’t be served because the guilty are in Wash. DC. The dehumanization of illegals, their deaths in the desert, and on … our lawmakers are guilty of that and violation of our sovereignty. So, naturally their response is to do more of the same. We all go along. We are completely insane.

    The crime has been committed by our Congress. The injustice is endured, firstly, by the American citizen and the individual illegal immigrants. Mr. L. ignores this, because repudiation of our sovereignty is necessary for his agenda. His other tool is racism, by charging the U.S. citizen with it when we claim our sovereignty is violated. He’s a not so clever two-bit cheap actor in this dance, this play.

    Notice, I never came at this from the racial end. That’s my whole point. But observe what the guests’ points were:
    1) Changing the language to shun the “I” word. The balls! Sorry, you don’t have the right to outlaw language that’s simple denotation because it’s too simply true and inconvenient. Grow up.
    2) Latino power. ie: take territory back, use their own Latino impoverished to work in wage slavery as the toehold, the 1st step. Who’s the racist?
    3) “Global citizenship”. ie: repudiate U.S. sovereignty.

    The guests demonstrated such stunning ignorance of basic things, it took my breath away. What they appear to think is that the dumbed-down masses would just kind of go along. The appearance is that they’re these sort of vampires feeding on the left-wing tendencies in this country. And they would be mostly correct.

    Most left-wing are ignorant of economics and are only too willing to go along with what’s least in their interest – if they understood economics and how the WashDC / corporate cabal has undermined our economy. They’re the lazy, the no-think masses which Moyer’s guests _depend_ on for the adoption of their no-think blather.

    I believe these sovereignty-repudiaters have made a fateful, ill-conceived miscalculation. It is for the body of citizenry to decide what is an appropriate level of immigration and from which countries. More of us will finally wake up to what’s happening. Mr Lavato can whine that it’s racist but, really, we shouldn’t care what he thinks. It’s completely irrelevant. Accepting people from all nations is perfectly fine. But the levels are what we decide. Because we are a sovereign. And that’s the rub for Mr. Lavato.

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